I know that I seem to be linking through to just about everything these guys put out there, but “Out Of Ur” has posted another great article, this time by Mike Sares, pastor of “Scum of the Earth” church (what a name). But I was struck by this quote:
Boomer Christians tend to divide the world into three categories: the holy, the secular, and the downright sinful….. The new generation of Christians, however, tends to see only two categories: the holy and the sinful. This means things that previously fell into the “secular” category are now open for consumption and experimentation without judgment.
It’s an interesting proposition, and certainly an interesting concept. I must admit, I’ve noticed my own worldview shifting towards removing the notion of secular from my life – which pushes you to consider where the “holiness” is in the “secular” things you do, or whether or not they are just sin. Worth a thought.
This is interesting stuff to think about Geoff. I think we can learn a lot from the Old testament re how to make sense of this divide. In Hebrew culture there was no such thing as sacred and secular – everything was under God – from eating, drinking, farming, sex, work to worship. All of life was holy under God. In some ways this is a far more scary proposition than having the holy corner of our lives and the rest as open experimental slather….
Hi Geoff, This sort of thinking has been with Christian thought since Augustine and his book Confessions . Classic Hellenistic dualism thought. Hirsch et al, with ‘shaping of things to come’, has a glimpse of Hebraic thought and Mclaren Generous orthodoxy also examines this a bit. Working for me as well as the Church stuff helps me remember that it is not an ‘if’ or ‘or’. In a post Christendom world, this sort of thinking will become more useful, I’m sure.
Well Geoff, it certainly seems like a valid observation
There was so much more to that comment but somehow it got deleted before i sent it.
Scott… I’m so glad that Helen came along and bunged a name on it, because I’m sure otherwise we would have had to continue to call it silly thinking instead of hellenistic dualism… which is clearly much harder for the plebs to understand, thus keeping the power in the hands of us, the noble intellects.
I also had no idea that Hirsch spent time in the Hebredies… but its great that he would consult islanders and bring Hebraic thought to bear in his doctrine.
Is it sinful because its secular? or is it secular because its sinful? or is it just that someone else thought of it first?
Creativity comes from God. Destruction comes from sin. All that is creative in this world is God inspired. Call it secular… call it lemon merangue pie. It is what it is.
I guess the trick of the thing is watching what we adopt from pop culture and/or our favorite sub cultures, and working out whether in fact it leads to life or death. Nanna was right in a way. Pop music does influence relaxing sexual standards…
Timmeh, thanks for your contribution. Its a shame that it is laced with cynicism and mocking, not something that I would expect of a follower of Jesus. I was just affirming Geoffs ‘holiness’ in the ‘secular’. Something that I believe that Jesus also did. Jesus been with prostitutes, tax collectors, making more wine at party and probably having a drink as well! You are right sin is sin, yet if you are not prepared to be with sinners and identify with them (Not there sin) you neglect the great commandment. What do you think Geoff?
I think you’re on the mark Scotty, and maybe Tim can just ease up on the sarcasm. (you know I love you mate
). There’s no doubt in my mind that as the Church we have messed the whole identifying with sinners thing in a push to try and keep ourselves “holy”, which leads to the whole “wowserism” bent as well.